Discussion:
OT - Paris Hilton's medical problem
(too old to reply)
RPM1
2007-06-09 11:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.

Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?

RCM
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 11:55:36 UTC
Permalink
"RPM1" <***@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote in message news:gfwai.2507$***@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
|
| Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child
| who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?

If they ever release the medical reason which I doubt they will, from hints
in what the Sheriff's office said and other bits and pieces reported
elsewhere, I'm guessing she got a doctor to claim she has an eating disorder
that was considerably worsened by having to eat jail food.

I'm no expert but looking at her, she doesn't appear anorexic like my best
friend in school or that one Olsen twin or Nicole Ritchie. She may have
bulimia... wouldn't know to look at her.

This chick stands to inherit her portion of the Hilton fortune when she's 25
(or something like that). Over a hundred million dollars IIRC. In the mean
time, she has legitimately made millions herself through her own endeavors,
to her credit. But she is still famous for being famous and that is a
dubious distinction. I wonder what makes her happy at this point.

sharon
Mary McHugh
2007-06-09 12:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
I'm no expert but looking at her, she doesn't appear anorexic like my best
friend in school or that one Olsen twin or Nicole Ritchie. She may have
bulimia... wouldn't know to look at her.
They're claiming "psychological" issues. I guess that could cover
almost anything.
Post by Lizzardwoman
This chick stands to inherit her portion of the Hilton fortune when she's 25
She's already 26. Did she already inherit?
Post by Lizzardwoman
(or something like that). Over a hundred million dollars IIRC. In the mean
time, she has legitimately made millions herself through her own endeavors,
to her credit. But she is still famous for being famous and that is a
dubious distinction. I wonder what makes her happy at this point.
She would have never made millions "on her own" without first having the
notoriety and money to begin with. Without the name, she'd probably be
a cheap porn-queen.

My MIL figures she'll attempt suicide to get out.

It would have been trivial for her to avoid this whole thing. She's
rich enough to have had a chauffeur drive her during her suspension.
She could have not driven under the influence to begin with. Millions
of people manage to do this every day.

How do your daughters feel about her and her ilk?

Mary
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 12:25:30 UTC
Permalink
"Mary McHugh" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
| Lizzardwoman wrote:
|
| > I'm no expert but looking at her, she doesn't appear anorexic like my
best
| > friend in school or that one Olsen twin or Nicole Ritchie. She may have
| > bulimia... wouldn't know to look at her.
|
| They're claiming "psychological" issues. I guess that could cover
| almost anything.

Then that covers eating disorders.

| > This chick stands to inherit her portion of the Hilton fortune when
she's 25
|
| She's already 26. Did she already inherit?

Maybe. I'll try to check facts.

I don';t think we would notice a difference between her previous lifestyle
and that after the inheritance. You can only spend so much per hour. : )

| > (or something like that). Over a hundred million dollars IIRC. In the
mean
| > time, she has legitimately made millions herself through her own
endeavors,
| > to her credit. But she is still famous for being famous and that is a
| > dubious distinction. I wonder what makes her happy at this point.
|
| She would have never made millions "on her own" without first having the
| notoriety and money to begin with. Without the name, she'd probably be
| a cheap porn-queen.

Well yes. But she didn't have to be entrepreneurial (sp?) at all in her
situation yet she was. I imagine plenty of others in her shoes would just
kick back and party all over the world or move to Hawai'i and drup and rape
women like Andrew Luster (heir to the Revlon fortune IIRC).

| My MIL figures she'll attempt suicide to get out.

That should land her in a psych ward, not home.

| It would have been trivial for her to avoid this whole thing. She's
| rich enough to have had a chauffeur drive her during her suspension.
| She could have not driven under the influence to begin with. Millions
| of people manage to do this every day.

Who knows whatit is like to be her?

| How do your daughters feel about her and her ilk?

I don't think they know who she is. They might but we haven't discussed
her.

sharon
JJ
2007-06-11 13:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
| She would have never made millions "on her own" without first having the
| notoriety and money to begin with. Without the name, she'd probably be
| a cheap porn-queen.
Well yes. But she didn't have to be entrepreneurial (sp?) at all in her
situation yet she was. I imagine plenty of others in her shoes would just
kick back and party all over the world or move to Hawai'i and drup and rape
women like Andrew Luster (heir to the Revlon fortune IIRC).
Just curious, how has she been "entrepreneurial"? I think she's just a
party girl who happens to be able to party where she can really be seen.
Her name and money allow her access to the "in" places and to be near other
"celebrities" and the like. And, with our society's hunger for this type of
"news"...she's become famous. That alone has given her the chance to be in
a movie or on TV...

How in any way has she "done" anything?

Ultimately, I feel very sorry for her. Her parents should be slapped.
They've all the advantages in the world, yet they've managed to rear a child
with, I suspect, no sense of self-worth, and no grasp on reality. It's
quite sad...JJ

Hunter
2007-06-09 14:04:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 07:55:36 -0400, "Lizzardwoman"
Post by Lizzardwoman
If they ever release the medical reason which I doubt they will, from hints
in what the Sheriff's office said and other bits and pieces reported
elsewhere, I'm guessing she got a doctor to claim she has an eating disorder
that was considerably worsened by having to eat jail food.
I'm guessing she doesn't want to poop in public and is getting
colicky.

I feel sorry for her.

Hunter
Mary McHugh
2007-06-09 12:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
RCM
Funny! The anchors on the local news are discussing this now. They
have strived to keep her out of the morning newscast but she's creeped
back in. They have a blog about it and someone pointed out that despite
the protestations of her being in the news, her blog has many more
replies than any of the real news related blogs.

Suck it up, princess. You could have EASILY avoided the jail time but
decided that you were above the law.

Mary
Paula Jantunen
2007-06-09 12:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Beats me. The regular updates even in the _Finnish_ media as to
whether or not she is in jail have been baffling and annoying me
lately. Who the h**l cares, except her family maybe? Why?!

(Doonesbury did a nice PH strip some time go:
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20070204
)

Paula
Grizzly
2007-06-09 12:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paula Jantunen
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Beats me. The regular updates even in the _Finnish_ media as to
whether or not she is in jail have been baffling and annoying me
lately. Who the h**l cares, except her family maybe? Why?!
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20070204
)
Paula
While they are blathering on about the little media whore, other more
important news is shoved to the back burner. Bush is jockeying to place
nukes in Poland and re-start the cold war with Russia.. Who gives a shit
about Paris anyway.
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 14:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grizzly
While they are blathering on about the little media whore, other more
important news is shoved to the back burner. Bush is jockeying to place
nukes in Poland and re-start the cold war with Russia.. Who gives a shit
about Paris anyway.
That's exactly right, and thank you for saying it.
John Hasler
2007-06-09 12:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Why are you discussing her? Answer that and you will have the answer to
your question.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
***@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Ben Turner
2007-06-09 12:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hasler
Post by RPM1
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Why are you discussing her? Answer that and you will have the answer to
your question.
John McCutcheon offered a personal remedy in his 1995 "I don't care":

"Where did it come from, this love of the lurid?
When did reality just get too tame?
From the Washington Post to the Weekly World News,
It seems nobody has any shame.
But when gossip abounds I have recently found
A remedy when I despair.
To this junk that I see, I respond with ennui
And say I really don't care."

<http://www.folkmusic.com/record/r_job.htm#Care>

--
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach

"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper,
Go to the country, build you a home,
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches,
Try an' find Jesus on your own."
--John Prine, "Spanish Pipedream"
PM
2007-06-09 20:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Turner
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach
"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper,
Go to the country, build you a home,
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches,
Try an' find Jesus on your own."
--John Prine, "Spanish Pipedream"
I looove John Prine, and a while back I looked forever for the song
title when I heard those lyrics on the radio. Never thought it'd turn
up on the rec.!
PM
Ben Turner
2007-06-09 22:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by PM
Post by Ben Turner
"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper,
Go to the country, build you a home,
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches,
Try an' find Jesus on your own."
--John Prine, "Spanish Pipedream"
I looove John Prine, and a while back I looked forever for the song
title when I heard those lyrics on the radio. Never thought it'd turn
up on the rec.!
Happy to oblige, even if accidentally.

Lyrics: <http://www.jpshrine.org/lyrics/songs/jpspanishpipedream.html>

Albums w/ Spanish Pipedream:

"John Prine" (1971)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002I97>

"Great Days: The John Prine Anthology" (1993)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003329>

--
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach

" . . . . you have no complaint.
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't.
So listen up Buster, and listen up good.
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood."
--John Prine, "Dear Abby"
CMNewell
2007-06-09 22:27:07 UTC
Permalink
I've always been fond of "Your flag decal won't get you/ into Heaven
anymore"
Ben Turner
2007-06-09 22:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by CMNewell
I've always been fond of "Your flag decal won't get you/ into Heaven
anymore"
And those lyrics were back in 1971: ;-(
<http://www.jpshrine.org/lyrics/songs/jpflagdecal.html>

--
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach
Laurel
2007-06-10 01:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by CMNewell
I've always been fond of "Your flag decal won't get you/ into Heaven
anymore"
"Angel From Montgomery" is good :) "Some Humans Ain't Human" is
topical, but won't hold up like the flag decal song.

Laurel w/Arabians
I couldn't believe the number of posts on this thread, which is why
I'm reading it. I've already got Paris overload; you can't get away
from her.
PM
2007-06-10 01:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Turner
Happy to oblige, even if accidentally.
Lyrics: <http://www.jpshrine.org/lyrics/songs/jpspanishpipedream.html>
"John Prine" (1971)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002I97>
"Great Days: The John Prine Anthology" (1993)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003329>
Thanks!
PM
RPM1
2007-06-09 13:00:36 UTC
Permalink
"John Hasler"
Post by John Hasler
Why are you discussing her? Answer that and you will have the answer to
your question.
It's true. I was just wondering if I missed something important that she
did, other than getting arrested, to get such attention.

Maybe folks are tired of hearing about stuff that they feel they have no
control over [war, terrorism, climate change, cold war part deux...]. This
is mindless 'brain vacation' fluff for the masses. It's easy to watch
because it really doesn't mean anything to the average person.

RCM
Mary McHugh
2007-06-09 13:22:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
is mindless 'brain vacation' fluff for the masses. It's easy to watch
because it really doesn't mean anything to the average person.
More than that... it gives a great feel good to "regular" people -- no
matter what issues they're dealing with, at least they're better than
her because they're not going to jail. :)

Mary
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 13:29:53 UTC
Permalink
"Mary McHugh" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
| RPM1 wrote:
|
| > is mindless 'brain vacation' fluff for the masses. It's easy to watch
| > because it really doesn't mean anything to the average person.
|
| More than that... it gives a great feel good to "regular" people -- no
| matter what issues they're dealing with, at least they're better than
| her because they're not going to jail. :)

It looks like, based on a cursory search, that she stands to inherit 30-50
million (if she hasn't already inherited it).

Now that we "know" that, maybe we can get on to more mundane matters. : )

sharon
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 14:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
It looks like, based on a cursory search, that she stands to inherit 30-50
million ...
You know, that's barely the threshold of wealth these days. I mean, if
invested prudently (and how likely is that?) you could live comfortably on
the dividends. But a house in Aspen or Hilton Head Island can cost all of
that, as can a private jet. Yachts cost more like $100 million, and are
very expensive to keep up.

- Jim
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 14:40:35 UTC
Permalink
"Jim Casey" <***@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:466abac7$0$11754$***@roadrunner.com...
| Lizzardwoman wrote:
|
| > It looks like, based on a cursory search, that she stands to inherit
30-50
| > million ...
|
| You know, that's barely the threshold of wealth these days. I mean, if
| invested prudently (and how likely is that?) you could live comfortably on
| the dividends. But a house in Aspen or Hilton Head Island can cost all of
| that, as can a private jet. Yachts cost more like $100 million, and are
| very expensive to keep up.

I think that's just the hotel inheritance and doesn't include her father's
real estate business inheritance which she may inherit upon her parents'
death.

I have no idea.

sharon
John Hasler
2007-06-09 15:04:33 UTC
Permalink
I was just wondering if I missed something important that she did,
Such people do not do anything important.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
***@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 14:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Maybe folks are tired of hearing about stuff that they feel they have no
control over [war, terrorism, climate change, cold war part deux...]. This
Are you making claims about others, or about yourself?

There is no control, but there is influence.

Those of us who enjoy the lessons in coexistence offered
by, say, herd livestock, should share information about
peaceful cooperation, not support destructiveness.
Terry von Gease
2007-06-10 18:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aunt Nasty
There is no control, but there is influence.
True, but if there were no free will there necessarily would be control.
Hoist on your own petard we should think. Ponder this until the next time
you manage to slip your handlers and find a keyboard convenient to you.
--
Terry

"I said I never had much use for one,
I never said I didn't know how to use one."
M. Quigley
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 21:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
True, but if there were no free will
You have no evidence that free will would exist.

There is much evidence that it does not.
Post by Terry von Gease
there necessarily would be control.
You are controlled, not the controller.
Post by Terry von Gease
...we should think....
Why don't you?

If you did, you'd not assume that the factors
which control you would require human
free will at all.
Post by Terry von Gease
Maybe folks are tired of hearing about stuff that they feel they have no
control over [war, terrorism, climate change, cold war part deux...]. This
Are you making claims about others, or about yourself?

There is no control, but there is influence.

Those of us who enjoy the lessons in coexistence offered
by, say, herd livestock, should share information about
peaceful cooperation, not support destructiveness.
John Hasler
2007-06-10 21:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
True, but if there were no free will there necessarily would be control.
Only if there was a controller with free will.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
***@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Terry von Gease
2007-06-09 14:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Anyone who has ever been around me for more that 5 minutes knows that I
don't have just a whole hell of a lot of use for the most of the human race.
Nonetheless there are things that I wouldn't wish on any person for any
reason; among them abdominal surgery, humiliation, and being lost. Not lost
in the woods but lost in a far more philosophical sense that I find myself
uncharacteristically and annoyingly unable to articulate.

If this Hilton bint isn't putting on a performance, which she well could be,
she's lost in exactly the sense I mean. And if it isn't a performance, as
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
--
Terry

"I said I never had much use for one,
I never said I didn't know how to use one."
M. Quigley
Grizzly
2007-06-09 14:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Anyone who has ever been around me for more that 5 minutes knows that I
don't have just a whole hell of a lot of use for the most of the human race.
Nonetheless there are things that I wouldn't wish on any person for any
reason; among them abdominal surgery, humiliation, and being lost. Not lost
in the woods but lost in a far more philosophical sense that I find myself
uncharacteristically and annoyingly unable to articulate.
Oh come off it would she even be discussed in this manner if she were
fat, ugly, and in need of dental work? Somehow I doubt it. Every day
hundreds of people get locked up. Do you feel badly when they have the
doors to the cross bar hotel slammed in their collective lost faces?
Snap out of it Terry, the media fluff machine has gotten to you..
Paula Jantunen
2007-06-09 15:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grizzly
Post by Terry von Gease
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Anyone who has ever been around me for more that 5 minutes knows that I
don't have just a whole hell of a lot of use for the most of the human race.
Nonetheless there are things that I wouldn't wish on any person for any
reason; among them abdominal surgery, humiliation, and being lost. Not lost
in the woods but lost in a far more philosophical sense that I find myself
uncharacteristically and annoyingly unable to articulate.
Oh come off it would she even be discussed in this manner if she were
fat, ugly, and in need of dental work? Somehow I doubt it. Every day
hundreds of people get locked up. Do you feel badly when they have the
doors to the cross bar hotel slammed in their collective lost faces?
Snap out of it Terry, the media fluff machine has gotten to you..
Hmm, I doubt it's the getting in trouble and locked up part that is
making TvG feel sorry for her. IMO he has a point, but then again all
this idiotic publicity is hardly helping her or anybody else in any
way.

Paula
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 15:51:27 UTC
Permalink
... all this idiotic publicity is hardly helping her or anybody else in
any way.
Maybe some wealthy parents somewhere are thinking, we had better make sure
our kids don't turn out like that. But probably not.

- Jim
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 16:00:49 UTC
Permalink
"Jim Casey" <***@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:466acc70$0$4927$***@roadrunner.com...
| Paula Jantunen wrote:
|
| > ... all this idiotic publicity is hardly helping her or anybody else in
| > any way.
|
| Maybe some wealthy parents somewhere are thinking, we had better make sure
| our kids don't turn out like that. But probably not.

Yes. I suspect her parents are disappointed in how she is leading her life.
Maybe it's poor parenting skills or maybe that kind of wealth almost always
screws a kid up. I tend to think it isn't the latter because I think of
folks like Caroline Kennedy who graduated law school, wrote some books, does
a bunch of charity work, and has stayed out of the tabloids.

sharon
RPM1
2007-06-09 16:09:40 UTC
Permalink
"Lizzardwoman"
Post by Lizzardwoman
Yes. I suspect her parents are disappointed in how she is leading her life.
Somehow I doubt it. The mom seems as much a nutter as her spawn.

Any normal parent would say "We love you BUT suck it up my dear child - it's
not the end of the world - see you in a few weeks..."

The sister [Nikki] seems normal-ish.

RCM
Alison Hiltabidle
2007-06-09 16:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
"Lizzardwoman"
Post by Lizzardwoman
Yes. I suspect her parents are disappointed in how she is leading her life.
Somehow I doubt it. The mom seems as much a nutter as her spawn.
Any normal parent would say "We love you BUT suck it up my dear child - it's
not the end of the world - see you in a few weeks..."
The sister [Nikki] seems normal-ish.
RCM
Nah - she's just smart enough to keep herself out of the tabloids. Who
knows what she's up to?
RPM1
2007-06-09 17:01:21 UTC
Permalink
"Alison Hiltabidle"
Post by Alison Hiltabidle
Nah - she's just smart enough to keep herself out of the tabloids. Who
knows what she's up to?
I know she was very into animals/animal rescue at one point. She's a
fashion designer, model and business owner [Nikki-Os - which is a hotel
iirc]. She was even in a few movies. I think she was married at one point.

RCM
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 17:32:51 UTC
Permalink
"RPM1" <***@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote in message news:B1Bai.15155$***@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| "Alison Hiltabidle"
| > Nah - she's just smart enough to keep herself out of the tabloids. Who
| > knows what she's up to?
|
| I know she was very into animals/animal rescue at one point. She's a
| fashion designer, model and business owner [Nikki-Os - which is a hotel
| iirc]. She was even in a few movies. I think she was married at one
point.

These chicks would do well to get into horses.

Look at Georgina Bloomberg. I think she pretty much stays out of the
tabloids despite having a billionaire father.

sharon
J. Z. M.
2007-06-10 02:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Look at Georgina Bloomberg. I think she pretty much stays out of the
tabloids despite having a billionaire father.
Yeah, and they keep a doctor on call for her too, she is bulimic as hell.
Have you ever seen a picture of this chic on a horse? Bones and skin, I
don't know how she has enough muscle to ride.

Regarding Paris, MHO her parents have cut her loose because they cannot
control her, they have "busy lives" and at this point do not give a rat's
ass what she does if it is "within reason". Is this right? Of course not,
but the holy rich have different goals and ethics than the mere mortal ones.
It's a club for them, and they live it in a small world these days. Yes,
Terry is right, she is a poor person searching for something and it is
indeed very sad. Money it turns out is not the cure for life's ills. Try to
see PBS's "Growing Up Rich" by one of the Johnson grandsons, it was a mere
glimpse into the life of a wealthy child in the US.

We could all use it, but wealth comes with a high personal price tag IMHO.


Jody
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 19:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Maybe it's poor parenting skills or maybe that kind of wealth almost always
screws a kid up. I tend to think it isn't the latter ...
Most wealthy people are decent or at least stay out of the papers. You
never hear of a Carnegie or Vanderbilt getting in trouble.

It seems like three or four generations after the person who acquired great
wealth, they start to act like the late French aristocracy. (That's not
counting the sports stars and athletes who are already idiots when they
acquire money.)

- Jim
law
2007-06-10 16:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Yes. I suspect her parents are disappointed in how she is leading her life.
Maybe it's poor parenting skills or maybe that kind of wealth almost always
screws a kid up. I tend to think it isn't the latter because I think of
folks like Caroline Kennedy who graduated law school, wrote some books, does
a bunch of charity work, and has stayed out of the tabloids.
You need to pay more attention to the news stories out there. As luck
would have it, I had my satellite radio tuned to "just the right
station" so that when I got in it yesterday and the radio came on, the
Paris story was there. The part where her Mommy was so upset NOT WITH
PARIS, of course, but how that mean old judge tweated her wittle baby.

Paris is what she is and where she is because she has the parents she
has. I haven't heard any words coming out of Daddy, but Mommy isn't
disappointed in Paris -- she's disappointed they peons haven't realized
Paris is special. From the same news broadcast, apprently the Paris
Mommy is exactly the same way.


LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
RPM1
2007-06-10 16:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Mommy isn't disappointed in Paris -- she's disappointed they peons
haven't
...lived up to their expectations of Hilton 'donation' money, might be more
like it. We shall see...

RCM
Michele Goudie
2007-06-11 03:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Mommy isn't disappointed in Paris -- she's disappointed they peons
haven't
...lived up to their expectations of Hilton 'donation' money, might be more
like it. We shall see...
What amuses me in all of this is where the Hilton's money (in general)
came from in the first place. Something that won't get discussed openly.
law
2007-06-11 12:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele Goudie
Post by RPM1
Mommy isn't disappointed in Paris -- she's disappointed they peons
haven't
...lived up to their expectations of Hilton 'donation' money, might be
more like it. We shall see...
What amuses me in all of this is where the Hilton's money (in general)
came from in the first place. Something that won't get discussed openly.
From buying a hotel in some little out of the way spot in Texas??


LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
Hunter
2007-06-11 13:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by law
Post by Michele Goudie
What amuses me in all of this is where the Hilton's money (in general)
came from in the first place. Something that won't get discussed openly.
From buying a hotel in some little out of the way spot in Texas??
When I was a kid I thought they should buy the leaning tower of
Pisa.... and call it the Tiltin' Hilton.

Hunter
law
2007-06-11 13:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
Post by law
Post by Michele Goudie
What amuses me in all of this is where the Hilton's money (in general)
came from in the first place. Something that won't get discussed openly.
From buying a hotel in some little out of the way spot in Texas??
When I was a kid I thought they should buy the leaning tower of
Pisa.... and call it the Tiltin' Hilton.
LOL -- you are soooo bad!

I like that in a person.


LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
Hunter
2007-06-11 13:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by law
LOL -- you are soooo bad!
I like that in a person.
(c:

Hunter
Angelocracy.com
2007-06-10 20:56:04 UTC
Permalink
http://angelocracy.com/


http://angelocracy.blogspot.com/2007/06/paris-hilton-hurts-and-feels-pain-like.html
Post by law
Post by Lizzardwoman
Yes. I suspect her parents are disappointed in how she is leading her life.
Maybe it's poor parenting skills or maybe that kind of wealth almost always
screws a kid up. I tend to think it isn't the latter because I think of
folks like Caroline Kennedy who graduated law school, wrote some books, does
a bunch of charity work, and has stayed out of the tabloids.
You need to pay more attention to the news stories out there. As luck
would have it, I had my satellite radio tuned to "just the right
station" so that when I got in it yesterday and the radio came on, the
Paris story was there. The part where her Mommy was so upset NOT WITH
PARIS, of course, but how that mean old judge tweated her wittle baby.
Paris is what she is and where she is because she has the parents she
has. I haven't heard any words coming out of Daddy, but Mommy isn't
disappointed in Paris -- she's disappointed they peons haven't realized
Paris is special. From the same news broadcast, apprently the Paris
Mommy is exactly the same way.
LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
Mary McHugh
2007-06-09 14:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
If this Hilton bint isn't putting on a performance, which she well could be,
she's lost in exactly the sense I mean. And if it isn't a performance, as
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
<THUD>!

Who are you and what have you done with Terry?

Mary
Tom & Win
2007-06-09 15:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary McHugh
Post by Terry von Gease
If this Hilton bint isn't putting on a performance, which she well could be,
she's lost in exactly the sense I mean. And if it isn't a performance, as
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
<THUD>!
Who are you and what have you done with Terry?
Exactly what I was thinking.

Winnie
Tamara in TN
2007-06-09 17:15:23 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 9, 10:12 am, "Terry von Gease" <***@wildblue.net> wrote:
And if it isn't a performance, as
Post by Terry von Gease
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
I think Anna Nicole was the same way...no clue as to the real world
and believing
anything that anyone told her...generally to get her naked....and all
the money in the world
does not fix that

Tamara in TN
RPM1
2007-06-09 17:29:31 UTC
Permalink
"Tamara in TN"
Post by Tamara in TN
I think Anna Nicole was the same way...no clue as to the real world
and believing
anything that anyone told her...generally to get her naked....and all
the money in the world
does not fix that
Yeah, but at least she came up from working at a chicken joint, or whatever
it was, and worked her way up [up?] to stripping where she met up with her
meal ticket ... IOW she had a sense, albeit remote, of what it was like out
in the real world.

Paris has been so insulated from anything and everything smacking of the
real world life of Johnny Punchclock and Suzie Layaway. Everything is
simply fabulous and life is always "hot" and nothing icky happens to the
beautiful people who are blessed with great bucketloads of cash. Rules and
laws and consequences for your behavior are so totally un-hot! Those things
should only apply to the common folk.

RCM
Tamara in TN
2007-06-09 17:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Yeah, but at least she came up from working at a chicken joint, or whatever
it was, and worked her way up [up?] to stripping where she met up with her
meal ticket ... IOW she had a sense, albeit remote, of what it was like out
in the real world.
no...I"d disagree....I've known a lot of strippers...(in the
platonic of course)
not one of them had any conception of reality outside dancing in the
club...not one
and it was not a "job" to them but a glam life that rivaled being a
movie star.....


. Rules and
Post by RPM1
laws and consequences for your behavior are so totally un-hot! Those things
should only apply to the common folk.
I dunno...porns of oneself "leaked" to the internet would
certainly get someone's
attention common folks or not...the way I saw the whole deal go down
is that one of her handers incorrectly
relayed to the family the attorneys instructions on where she couldor
could not go in her car...

now if the family paid for this service and got a big service then
yes she is
a victim that way...was it her business as an over 18yo person to find
out herself??? yes...
did the family as a unit,do it that way ? no...also handler named has
since resigned....

from a purely outsider view (and I do read TMZ.com daily to see what's
going on in Hollywood)
the judge gas a hard on of some kind for her case...if five days
served and then release out of 45 for a non violent
is standard in that jail system,then she should not get less because
of who she is, nor should she serve more because
of who she is.....

Tamara in TN
Tamara in TN
2007-06-09 17:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tamara in TN
now if the family paid for this service and got a big service then
yes she is
a victim that way...
and got a BAD service....sorry

Tamara in TN
RPM1
2007-06-09 17:54:28 UTC
Permalink
"Tamara in TN"
Post by Tamara in TN
no...I"d disagree....I've known a lot of strippers...(in the
platonic of course)
not one of them had any conception of reality outside dancing in the
club...not one
and it was not a "job" to them but a glam life that rivaled being a
movie star.....
Name one job Paris Hilton has held.

RCM
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 18:08:58 UTC
Permalink
"RPM1" <***@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote in message news:oPBai.2555$***@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| "Tamara in TN"
| > no...I"d disagree....I've known a lot of strippers...(in the
| > platonic of course)
| > not one of them had any conception of reality outside dancing in the
| > club...not one
| > and it was not a "job" to them but a glam life that rivaled being a
| > movie star.....
|
| Name one job Paris Hilton has held.

Her TV show, "The Simple Life."

sharon
RPM1
2007-06-09 18:15:30 UTC
Permalink
"Lizzardwoman"
Post by Lizzardwoman
Her TV show, "The Simple Life."
I think of jobs in terms of years. I'm working on 22 at my current gig.

RCM
Tamara in TN
2007-06-09 18:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Name one job Paris Hilton has held.
the "Simple Life" which starts season five this year...she also
has a line of clothing she created and sells,three perfumes,and makes
up to
$300,000 for personal appearances at openings and parties and film
festivals

Tamara in TN
Don Bruder
2007-06-09 19:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tamara in TN
Post by RPM1
Name one job Paris Hilton has held.
the "Simple Life" which starts season five this year...
BFD... A rich bimbo tries to play the part of "Jane Average". And
generally fails miserably - BECAUSE she's a clueless bimbo that's had
everything handed to her on a silver platter.
Post by Tamara in TN
she also has a line of clothing she created and sells,
BFD... There's a sucker born every minute.
Post by Tamara in TN
three perfumes
BFD... So her name is on three flavors of stink-water. So what?
Post by Tamara in TN
,and makes up to $300,000 for personal appearances at openings and
parties and film festivals
BFD... An old line concerning idiots and their money comes to mind.

Long and short of things: Readers of rec.eq care about this bimbo's
existence because...?

I, for one, couldn't care less if I tried. If she slides below the radar
(unlikely, but one can hope) and her name is never heard again, what
difference will it make in the world? Aside from having less fluff to
report on the nightly news, I mean.
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 19:52:30 UTC
Permalink
"Tamara in TN" <***@HIGHLAND.NET> wrote in message news:***@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| On Jun 9, 1:54 pm, "RPM1" <***@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote:
|
| > Name one job Paris Hilton has held.
|
| the "Simple Life" which starts season five this year...she also
| has a line of clothing she created and sells,three perfumes,and makes
| up to
| $300,000 for personal appearances at openings and parties and film
| festivals

Last year or the year before, she made $7 million though her own
entrepreneurial endeavors, not her parents.

sharon
Robin Ryan
2007-06-09 21:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tamara in TN
from a purely outsider view (and I do read TMZ.com daily to see what's
going on in Hollywood)
the judge gas a hard on of some kind for her case...if five days
served and then release out of 45 for a non violent
is standard in that jail system,then she should not get less because
of who she is, nor should she serve more because
of who she is.....
Now Tamara, that makes way too damn much common sense. You know better
than that!

Robin [don't hate me because I'm rich and beautiful] Ryan
JC Dill
2007-06-10 16:24:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:20:45 -0500, Robin Ryan
Post by Robin Ryan
Post by Tamara in TN
from a purely outsider view (and I do read TMZ.com daily to see what's
going on in Hollywood)
the judge gas a hard on of some kind for her case...if five days
served and then release out of 45 for a non violent
is standard in that jail system,then she should not get less because
of who she is, nor should she serve more because
of who she is.....
Now Tamara, that makes way too damn much common sense. You know better
than that!
If it was standard to release everyone after just 5 days served, they
wouldn't have trotted out her "jailitis" illness as an excuse, they
would have just let her go home without needing (or offering) an
excuse. And let everyone else (who was a first offender of a
non-violent crime who was sentenced to 45 days) go home after 5 days
as well.

It IS standard for a first time offender to only have to serve 1/2 the
time - standard is that she gets to go home in 23 days.

jc
--
"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
JenniferR
2007-06-11 02:13:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by JC Dill
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:20:45 -0500, Robin Ryan
Post by Robin Ryan
Post by Tamara in TN
from a purely outsider view (and I do read TMZ.com daily to see what's
going on in Hollywood)
the judge gas a hard on of some kind for her case...if five days
served and then release out of 45 for a non violent
is standard in that jail system,then she should not get less because
of who she is, nor should she serve more because
of who she is.....
Now Tamara, that makes way too damn much common sense. You know better
than that!
If it was standard to release everyone after just 5 days served, they
wouldn't have trotted out her "jailitis" illness as an excuse, they
would have just let her go home without needing (or offering) an
excuse. And let everyone else (who was a first offender of a
non-violent crime who was sentenced to 45 days) go home after 5 days
as well.
It IS standard for a first time offender to only have to serve 1/2 the
time - standard is that she gets to go home in 23 days.
jc
Why let Paris Hilton's stay in jail increase potentially more media
scrutiny on the political/human rights/illegal immigrants hot potato of
alleged California jail overcrowding and abuses?

I think it's partially a "bait and switch" tactic cooked up for the media.

JenniferR
law
2007-06-10 16:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Tamara in TN wrote:
.
Post by Tamara in TN
from a purely outsider view (and I do read TMZ.com daily to see what's
going on in Hollywood)
the judge gas a hard on of some kind for her case...if five days
served and then release out of 45 for a non violent
is standard in that jail system,then she should not get less because
of who she is, nor should she serve more because
of who she is.....
Scuttle butt at the "beauty parlor" yesterday is the Judge is bucking
for a TV show of his own (ala Judge Judy, etc.). So he's making a name
for himself. Question is will this name be any better for him than the
crying jag was for the judge in Florida?

LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
law
2007-06-10 16:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
And if it isn't a performance, as
Post by Terry von Gease
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
I think Anna Nicole was the same way...no clue as to the real world
and believing
anything that anyone told her...generally to get her naked....and all
the money in the world
does not fix that
As Ron White says: "You can't fix stupid."



LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
Hunter
2007-06-09 21:01:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 08:12:00 -0600, "Terry von Gease"
Post by Terry von Gease
If this Hilton bint isn't putting on a performance, which she well could be,
she's lost in exactly the sense I mean. And if it isn't a performance, as
vacuous, useless, and superficial as she is, there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her. No one deserves that, no one no how.
Thank you Terry, that's how I feel too.

Hunter
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 14:55:22 UTC
Permalink
... there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her...
Who are you and what have you done with the real Terry von Gease?

The real Terry would be trying to tell us all about how Paris chose her
parents, chose her life, and is fully and individually responsible for each
and every thing that ever happened to her.

The belief in the myth of free will simply doesn't justify condemnations
of others, though some are desperate to condemn anyway.
Terry von Gease
2007-06-10 19:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aunt Nasty
... there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her...
Who are you and what have you done with the real Terry von Gease?
The real Terry would be trying to tell us all about how Paris chose her
parents, chose her life, and is fully and individually responsible for each
and every thing that ever happened to her.
Who said anything about choosing one's parents? She is where she is because
she hasn't played her cards well. The sadness is because she doesn't appear
to comprehend the game, she's lost. A real waste of some incredibly good
hands.
Post by Aunt Nasty
The belief in the myth of free will simply doesn't justify condemnations
of others, though some are desperate to condemn anyway.
Keep pushing that nonsense. It's quite attractive to specimens that want to
abdicate responsibility for themselves by making character flaws and bad
judgment into diseases. If you have some disease, then you're not held
particularly responsible. So the diseased mind of the modern turbo-liberal
would appear to churn. You're fat, ignorant, drink too much, do recreational
chemistry, etc? Not your fault, you've got some loathsome disease. How
convenient.
--
Terry

"I said I never had much use for one,
I never said I didn't know how to use one."
M. Quigley
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 21:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Who said anything about choosing one's parents? ...
You've stated that everyone is where and what they
are because of their own choices.

Are you admitting that you're mistaken in that?
Keep pushing that nonsense...
You sure do.
... there's one lost little girl
living in there and I'm sad for her...
Who are you and what have you done with the real Terry von Gease?

The real Terry would be trying to tell us all about how Paris chose her
parents, chose her life, and is fully and individually responsible for each
and every thing that ever happened to her.

The belief in the myth of free will simply doesn't justify condemnations
of others, though some are desperate to condemn anyway.
law
2007-06-10 16:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry von Gease
Anyone who has ever been around me for more that 5 minutes knows that I
don't have just a whole hell of a lot of use for the most of the human race.
Dy-Yamn -- now there's a news flash


;-)


LisaW
--
"A man who has nothing he is willing to fight for, nothing which he
cares more about than he does his own personal safety, is a miserable
creature, who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by
the exertions of men better than himself. As long as justice and
injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight...human
beings must be willing...to do battle for the one against the other."
-- John Stuart Mill
PM
2007-06-09 20:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
RCM
After reading all the responses here on the rec., I'm thinking y'all
know way too much about Paris Hilton. And sadly, so do I.....it's
everywhere. The bigger question: what is it about human nature that
makes people follow this stuff? I caught the tailend of a piece on
NPR where someone was saying it's always been this way.....but in the
ancient times people would have gone on about what the gods were up
to......as in, "did you hear Aphrodite was seen getting out of her
limo without panties".
PM
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 21:01:15 UTC
Permalink
"PM" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| On Jun 9, 7:34 am, "RPM1" <***@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote:
| > Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
| >
| > Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled
child
| > who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
| >
| > RCM
|
| After reading all the responses here on the rec., I'm thinking y'all
| know way too much about Paris Hilton. And sadly, so do I.....it's
| everywhere. The bigger question: what is it about human nature that
| makes people follow this stuff? I caught the tailend of a piece on
| NPR where someone was saying it's always been this way.....but in the
| ancient times people would have gone on about what the gods were up
| to......as in, "did you hear Aphrodite was seen getting out of her
| limo without panties".
| PM

Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the Greeks
did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that right? I
thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like theists today
believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.

sharon
PM
2007-06-09 21:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the Greeks
did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that right? I
thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like theists today
believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.
I thought that they believed that as well. Hmmm.
PM
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 21:33:09 UTC
Permalink
"PM" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
| On Jun 9, 5:01 pm, "Lizzardwoman" <***@nc.rr.com> wrote:
| > Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the
Greeks
| > did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that right?
I
| > thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like theists
today
| > believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.
|
| I thought that they believed that as well. Hmmm.

I do consider the person an authority (I believe she is an ABD) so I now am
obliged to be skeptical (recall I don't think an appeal to authority is a
fallacy). ; )

It might be one of those things on which reasonable people can disagree.

sharon
Paula Jantunen
2007-06-09 21:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
| > Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the
Greeks
| > did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that right?
I
| > thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like theists
today
| > believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.
|
| I thought that they believed that as well. Hmmm.
I do consider the person an authority (I believe she is an ABD) so I now am
obliged to be skeptical (recall I don't think an appeal to authority is a
fallacy). ; )
It might be one of those things on which reasonable people can disagree.
This is really really not my field, but here's my guess:

The Greek gods started out as all sort of locally worshiped deities
which later together developed into this family of gods which looks
like ideal material for a soap opera on the telly, these days.

At the same time, what was originally more or less devoted belief
turned into more like telling and inventing stories - sometimes quite
irreverent ones - about mythical heroes. (We've got those in the
Finnish history too; look into Kalevala, our national epic, if
interested.) People sort of believed in their existence, probably, and
the Greek gods were certainly formally worshiped as well (temples,
sacrifices...), but on the whole it wasn't quite the same sort of
belief as e.g. devoted Christians or Muslims or Jews have these days.

But as I said, this is just my idea.

Paula
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 22:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
| > Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the
Greeks
| > did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that right?
I
| > thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like theists
today
| > believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.
|
| I thought that they believed that as well. Hmmm.
I do consider the person an authority (I believe she is an ABD) so I now am
obliged to be skeptical (recall I don't think an appeal to authority is a
fallacy). ; )
It might be one of those things on which reasonable people can disagree.
This is really really not my field, but here's my guess:

The Greek gods started out as all sort of locally worshiped deities
which later together developed into this family of gods which looks
like ideal material for a soap opera on the telly, these days.

At the same time, what was originally more or less devoted belief
turned into more like telling and inventing stories - sometimes quite
irreverent ones - about mythical heroes. (We've got those in the
Finnish history too; look into Kalevala, our national epic, if
interested.) People sort of believed in their existence, probably, and
the Greek gods were certainly formally worshiped as well (temples,
sacrifices...), but on the whole it wasn't quite the same sort of
belief as e.g. devoted Christians or Muslims or Jews have these days.

But as I said, this is just my idea.

-------------

That sounds reasonable.

Kalevala sounds like a great name for a mare (nick name = Kale pronounced
KAHLEE or Val)

sharon
John Hasler
2007-06-09 22:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the
Greeks did not actually believe these god characters existed. Is that
right? I thought they believed in the existence of these gods just like
theists today believe that Yahweh and Allah actually exist.
Ancient or classical? The ancient Greeks (and the country people in
classical times) probably believed but in more of a superstitious than a
fundamentalist fashion. Sophisticated classicals were probably closer to
modern Unitarians. Some may have been atheists but of course it would not
have been safe to write that down.

Think of the way we sometimes refer to "Mother Nature".
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
***@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 22:09:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizzardwoman
Someone, a classics major no less, was trying to convince me that the Greeks
did not actually believe these god characters existed.
I imagine there are places where such a question might get better-informed
feedback than rec.equestrian, but...

I don't doubt that the unsophisticated believed literally in the Greek gods
at some point in history.

At least some of the priests most likely knew that what they did was a
bunch of mumbo-jumbo, useful only for squeezing sacrifices from the masses.

Socrates certainly did not, and died for it. Probably other intellectuals
were as skeptical, but more discreet.

- Jim
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 22:14:46 UTC
Permalink
"Jim Casey" <***@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:466b2501$0$4928

(snip)

| Socrates certainly did not, and died for it. Probably other intellectuals
| were as skeptical, but more discreet.

There is a series called A Brief History of Disbelief" that outlines atheism
thorough history.



" Brief History of Disbelief is a deeply intelligent and rational journey
through the highly divisive topic. Written and narrated by acclaimed British
intellectual Jonathan Miller - author, lecturer, TV producer/host, director
of theater, opera and film, and neurologist - A Brief History of Disbelief
originally aired on the BBC in the U.K. It was the first-ever historical
look at the controversial topic on television."


The fear of revealing one's atheism continues today, especially among
political candidates.

sharon
John Hasler
2007-06-09 22:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Socrates certainly did not [believe in the gods], and died for it.
That is not at all clear.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
***@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Brian Whatcott
2007-06-10 01:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hasler
Socrates certainly did not [believe in the gods], and died for it.
That is not at all clear.
John puts it mildly!
If you wish to refer to the Socrates article in Wiki - much vandalized
of late it seems - you could read:

" Plato's dialogues portray Socrates as a teacher who denies having
disciples, as a man of reason who obeys a divine voice in his head,
and a pious man who is executed for the state's own expediency. "
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates>

But perhaps it would be better to quote that other person who talks
of Socrates at length: I refer to Plato. His dialog "Euthedymius"
mentions Greek gods, in words issuing from Socrates' lips, in this
way:

[Chap 302]
" ...in the way of religion I have altars and temples, domestic and
ancestral, and all that other Athenians have.....
[Dionysorius] ..you admit that you have Apollo, Zeus, and Athene.
Certainly, I said.
And they are your Gods, he said.
Yes, I said, my Lords and ancestors...." [tr: Ben Jowett]

[The dialog takes some amusing animal twists, thereafter.]
*********************************************

A somewhat historical account of the Greek belief system is
also carried in the Bible's New Testament, concerning apostles
visiting a Greek colony, performing healing work, and being
greeted by inhabitants acclaiming them as Gods, which they
repeatedly deny, in favor of their Rabi.

1Acts14
10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped
and walked.

11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their
voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us
in the likeness of men.

12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he
was the chief speaker.

13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought
oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice
with the people.

******************************************************
But I will not trouble you with details

Brian Whatcott Altus OK
Dr Corinne B Leek
2007-06-10 02:30:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:47:20 GMT, Brian Whatcott
Post by Brian Whatcott
1Acts14
10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped
and walked.
11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their
voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us
in the likeness of men.
12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he
was the chief speaker.
13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought
oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice
with the people.
******************************************************
But I will not trouble you with details
Probably a GoodThing. Your details are, um, faulty...

There is no such thing as "! Acts". There is only *one* Acts.
What you are referring to is: Acts 14: 10-13.
And your translation is using the later Latin, likely of Jerome, vs
the original Greek.

Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew...

--
*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!
*** ***@ns.sympatico.ca
Brian Whatcott
2007-06-10 03:18:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:30:33 -0300, Dr Corinne B Leek
Post by Dr Corinne B Leek
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:47:20 GMT, Brian Whatcott
Post by Brian Whatcott
1Acts14
...
Post by Dr Corinne B Leek
Post by Brian Whatcott
******************************************************
But I will not trouble you with details
[Leek]
Post by Dr Corinne B Leek
Probably a GoodThing. Your details are, um, faulty...
There is no such thing as "! Acts".
Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew...
Um, whatever you say, dear.
Better cut back on the happy water?

Brian W
Grizzly
2007-06-09 21:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by PM
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
RCM
After reading all the responses here on the rec., I'm thinking y'all
know way too much about Paris Hilton. And sadly, so do I.....it's
everywhere. The bigger question: what is it about human nature that
makes people follow this stuff? I caught the tailend of a piece on
NPR where someone was saying it's always been this way.....but in the
ancient times people would have gone on about what the gods were up
to......as in, "did you hear Aphrodite was seen getting out of her
limo without panties".
PM
Aphrodite didn't need no stinkin' car nor panties she rode in on a wave
nekkid on a clamshell...and if the media would have said anything her
daddy woulda smote 'em good...Gods are touchy sometimes..
Ben Turner
2007-06-09 22:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grizzly
Aphrodite didn't need no stinkin' car nor panties she rode in on a wave
nekkid on a clamshell...and if the media would have said anything her
daddy woulda smote 'em good...Gods are touchy sometimes..
That would be the Aphrodite that was unfaithful (with Ares, Adonis,
Anchises and others) to her husband Hephaestus (a smith who forged
a girdle for her, BTW). These stories didn't need the "media" with
the likes of Homer around. Ex. this summary of a section of Homer's
"The Odyssey":

"In The Odyssey of Homer (book 8, line 266), the singer, Demodokos,
tells the tale of how Aphrodite and Ares secretly laid together in
the bed of her husband, Lord Hephaistos (Hephaestus), the smith of
the gods. Helios (the Sun) secretly observed the lovers and told
Hephaestus. The smith went to his work and devised clever
fastenings that would ensnare and hold the lovers in an
unbreakable trap. The careless lovers fell into the trap and
Hephaestus stood before the other Olympians and demanded his gifts
of courtship be returned. Only after Poseidon (Lord of the Sea)
offered to pay the adultererÂ’s damages if Ares defaulted would
Hephaestus loose the bonds. After being freed, Aphrodite went to
her sacred precinct on the island of Kypros where she was bathed
by the Graces and Ares went Thraceward. Seeing the two lovers in
the indignity of the snare, Apollon asked Hermes how he would feel
in such a situation. Hermes answered that he would suffer thrice
the number of bonds if only he could share the bed of Aphrodite
the Golden (Odyssey, book 8, line 342)"

from Michael Stewart's "Aphrodite", Greek Mythology: From the
Iliad to the Fall of the Last Tyrant. (November 14, 2005)
<http://messagenet.com/myths/bios/aphrodite.html>

--
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach
Grizzly
2007-06-09 23:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Turner
Post by Grizzly
Aphrodite didn't need no stinkin' car nor panties she rode in on a wave
nekkid on a clamshell...and if the media would have said anything her
daddy woulda smote 'em good...Gods are touchy sometimes..
That would be the Aphrodite that was unfaithful (with Ares, Adonis,
Anchises and others) to her husband Hephaestus (a smith who forged
a girdle for her, BTW). These stories didn't need the "media" with
the likes of Homer around. Ex. this summary of a section of Homer's
"In The Odyssey of Homer (book 8, line 266), the singer, Demodokos,
tells the tale of how Aphrodite and Ares secretly laid together in
the bed of her husband, Lord Hephaistos (Hephaestus), the smith of
the gods. Helios (the Sun) secretly observed the lovers and told
Hephaestus. The smith went to his work and devised clever
fastenings that would ensnare and hold the lovers in an
unbreakable trap. The careless lovers fell into the trap and
Hephaestus stood before the other Olympians and demanded his gifts
of courtship be returned. Only after Poseidon (Lord of the Sea)
offered to pay the adulterer’s damages if Ares defaulted would
Hephaestus loose the bonds. After being freed, Aphrodite went to
her sacred precinct on the island of Kypros where she was bathed
by the Graces and Ares went Thraceward. Seeing the two lovers in
the indignity of the snare, Apollon asked Hermes how he would feel
in such a situation. Hermes answered that he would suffer thrice
the number of bonds if only he could share the bed of Aphrodite
the Golden (Odyssey, book 8, line 342)"
from Michael Stewart's "Aphrodite", Greek Mythology: From the
Iliad to the Fall of the Last Tyrant. (November 14, 2005)
<http://messagenet.com/myths/bios/aphrodite.html>
--
Best,
Ben Turner, Mare's Reach
All hot stuff and proof positive that they didn't need the internet for
porn. The mind is the strongest, best Aphrodisiac..Greek and Roman
myth/religion were rife with rutting and poking and quite a bit of
zoophily..Europa getting humped by a bull (of course it was a god right)
"sure lady tell it to the judge", Leda by a swan "Another god in swan's
clothing". Bacchus/Pan/Dionysus rutting with the nymphs..just way more
sex than a person would care to think about yet fertility was the end
all be all back then and so it seems to be today. Sex still sells. If it
didn't there would be no discussion of the rich waifish tart that just
went back to the hoosgow. Hmmm.
Lizzardwoman
2007-06-09 23:40:58 UTC
Permalink
"Grizzly" <***@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:ADGai.35411

(snip)

| All hot stuff and proof positive that they didn't need the internet for
| porn. The mind is the strongest, best Aphrodisiac..Greek and Roman
| myth/religion were rife with rutting and poking and quite a bit of
| zoophily..Europa getting humped by a bull (of course it was a god right)
| "sure lady tell it to the judge", Leda by a swan "Another god in swan's
| clothing". Bacchus/Pan/Dionysus rutting with the nymphs..just way more
| sex than a person would care to think about yet fertility was the end
| all be all back then and so it seems to be today. Sex still sells. If it
| didn't there would be no discussion of the rich waifish tart that just
| went back to the hoosgow. Hmmm.

Were you a classics major?

Zoophily is a great word.

sharon
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 21:33:42 UTC
Permalink
The bigger question: what is it about human nature that makes people
follow this stuff?
We like to see someone else screw up. Maybe, on a deep evolutionary level,
we know that when someone else screws up, the predators are more likely to
go after him and leave us in peace.

It's not relevant to the present case; but I particularly love it when some
finger-wagging, sanctimonious bastard is caught diddling interns,
embezzling, or popping illegal pills, or otherwise shown to be a hypocrite.

Call me small-minded.

- Jim
Jim Casey
2007-06-09 22:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Casey
We like to see someone else screw up.
P.S.: This trend was visible as the dramatic form called tragedy thousands
of years ago.

- Jim
J. Z. M.
2007-06-10 02:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Casey
Post by Jim Casey
We like to see someone else screw up.
P.S.: This trend was visible as the dramatic form called tragedy thousands
of years ago.
LOL a thousand years ago they would be stoning the girl for driving a donkey
without a license. :) Humans love another human having problems, ask Moses.


Jody
PM
2007-06-10 01:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Casey
The bigger question: what is it about human nature that makes people
follow this stuff?
We like to see someone else screw up. Maybe, on a deep evolutionary level,
we know that when someone else screws up, the predators are more likely to
go after him and leave us in peace.
Could be so. Just like we're hardwired to eat donuts 'n crapfoods.
Gotta survive, you know.
Post by Jim Casey
It's not relevant to the present case; but I particularly love it when some
finger-wagging, sanctimonious bastard is caught diddling interns,
embezzling, or popping illegal pills, or otherwise shown to be a hypocrite.
Call me small-minded.
Then call me smaller-minded, 'cause that's what gives me the big
jollies. Oh the flood of names that come to mind.......
PM
Jim Casey
2007-06-10 02:10:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by PM
Oh the flood of names that come to mind.......
Let's not disturb the peace.

- Jim
RPM1
2007-06-10 14:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by PM
Post by Jim Casey
The bigger question: what is it about human nature that makes people
follow this stuff?
We like to see someone else screw up. Maybe, on a deep evolutionary level,
we know that when someone else screws up, the predators are more likely to
go after him and leave us in peace.
Could be so. Just like we're hardwired to eat donuts 'n crapfoods.
Gotta survive, you know.
Post by Jim Casey
It's not relevant to the present case; but I particularly love it when some
finger-wagging, sanctimonious bastard is caught diddling interns,
embezzling, or popping illegal pills, or otherwise shown to be a hypocrite.
Call me small-minded.
Then call me smaller-minded, 'cause that's what gives me the big
jollies. Oh the flood of names that come to mind.......
PM
If they are names that MEAN something to you and me. IOW public officials
whom we trust [ha! trust] to do a certain job for we, the people, sure, all
bets are off and I want to know what a slime bag they might just happen to
be. Most are scuzzballs. The trick is picking the least scuzzy of the
pathetic litter.

If they are just celebrities - who cares other than the sad fact that the
likes of Paris, Britney and Lindsey are looked up to by many kids. Not my
kid, but I spend enough volunteer time in school to know.

No wonder religious wackos hate us so. I hope they weren't watching CNN on
Friday.

RCM
PM
2007-06-10 21:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
If they are names that MEAN something to you and me. IOW public officials
whom we trust [ha! trust] to do a certain job for we, the people, sure, all
bets are off and I want to know what a slime bag they might just happen to
be. Most are scuzzballs. The trick is picking the least scuzzy of the
pathetic litter.
Trouble is, my slime bag might not be your slime bag. If we're
talkin' public officials, I could give rat-butt to know who's having
an affair, etc. UNLESS what they're doing is illegal or if they've
made it my business by publicly condeming whatever they're diddling
with in order to get votes or whatever. The hyprocrisy thang.

Here in Bedrock, folks are outraged by things that I chalk up to "none
of my business".
Post by RPM1
If they are just celebrities - who cares other than the sad fact that the
likes of Paris, Britney and Lindsey are looked up to by many kids. Not my
kid, but I spend enough volunteer time in school to know.
It's not just kids. Co-workers will sit and discuss some of these
celebutards as if they personally knew them....knew what they were
thinking, etc.
Post by RPM1
No wonder religious wackos hate us so. I hope they weren't watching CNN on
Friday.
You lost me on that last comment??? Wackos, which ones? I don't get
CNN.
PM
Robin Ryan
2007-06-10 21:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by PM
It's not just kids. Co-workers will sit and discuss some of these
celebutards as if they personally knew them....knew what they were
thinking, etc.
I know what you mean. I remember hearing a discussion between a couple
of my employees about how angry/upset they were that Brad and Angelina
treated poor Jennifer so badly. They seemed sincerely distressed about
it (as though they knew the parties personally!)

Robin
Tamara in TN
2007-06-10 22:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Ryan
I know what you mean. I remember hearing a discussion between a couple
of my employees about how angry/upset they were that Brad and Angelina
treated poor Jennifer so badly. They seemed sincerely distressed about
it (as though they knew the parties personally!)
my interest in Celebs is really limited to what they are
wearing...
yes I am shallow enough to see everyone's spring and fall collections
from Milan and Paris...then I look for them over the year....it passes
the time
here in Nowhereville <G>

Tamara in TN
Dave Smith
2007-06-10 00:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Okay, let me first start out by saying I'm sorry for this OT subject.
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Because people like to gossip about and pass judgement on celebrities, as
evidenced by your raising the issue.
RPM1
2007-06-10 00:34:09 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Smith"
Post by Dave Smith
Because people like to gossip about and pass judgement on celebrities, as
evidenced by your raising the issue.
And you clicked on the header.
J. Z. M.
2007-06-10 02:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by RPM1
Can anyone tell me WHY there is such a fuss over a terminally coddled child
who is simply suffering a severe allergic reaction to reality?
Why are you wanting to know about Paris??? Huh? If you have to ask this
question maybe you are making a fuss too!

Human nature to gossip, pure and simple gossip. Today it is news, it used to
be by telephone on party lines, before that it was pony express, and before
that it was two people talking on a stage coach, etc. People have always
talked about other people, Paris just has a penchant for the glory of
gossip. I bet Cleopatra had a hell of a buzz going in Egypt in her day.
Really Caesar and Marc Anthony??? NO? <lean in>...do tell.

Jody
RPM1
2007-06-10 12:43:52 UTC
Permalink
"J. Z. M."
Post by J. Z. M.
Why are you wanting to know about Paris??? Huh? If you have to ask this
question maybe you are making a fuss too!
I tried to listen to my regular talk radio guy yesterday, who is usually a
fairly sensible moderate type. He started off by saying "I am NOT going to
spend the whole time talking about Paris Hilton" and then he DID just that!
WTF Maybe it was just my dumb luck Friday evening but I could NOT get a
newscast without PH. I even flipped to channels that I hadn't visited in
years.

I think the PH Overload has settled down. Now they've shifted focus to the
LA County Sheriff which actually might be interesting. At least it means
something in the real world beyond a spoiled girl's boo-hoo fest.

RCM
Aunt Nasty
2007-06-10 14:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Some folks in the real world say that too many girls with horses
are snobby coddled princesses isolated from reality.

I keep hoping they'll be proved wrong by the horsefolk who
know and care about such things outside the stall walls as
current events affecting us all and the horses we ride in on.
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